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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 81 post(s) |

Proddy Scun
Renfield Inc
0
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Posted - 2012.10.04 19:34:00 -
[1] - Quote
Poetic Stanziel wrote:CCP Masterplan wrote:Mizhir wrote:Sounds like a great solution, but i got a question.
If I in lowsec attacks a player, who is an illegal target for me, and I destroy his ship I will get Suspect flag and the Sentry guns will shoot me during the combat. But if I warps out and warps back again (while still under the S flag) will they resume attacking me? No. They'll always shoot Criminals on-sight for as long as the Criminal has the flag, but for other acts they will only shoot you for as long as you stay in their vicinity after whatever action gave you a Suspect flag. That seems fine ... in low-sec, shooting an illegal ship will get me a SUSPECT flag. But, shooting an illegal ship will get me a secstatus penalty, and another chart states that sentry guns will fire on anyone who receives a secstatus penalty, in highsec or lowsec. So, we get a suspect flag in lowsec for shooting an illegal ship, but sentry guns will still fire on us due to the secstatus penalty we incur.
I think CCP means a sufficiently LOW secstatus will cause you to be fired upon. That is if you had 0.0 secstatus before - destroying a single illegal ship probably will NOT result in a low enough secstatus for you to be fired upon by sentry guns.
Thus secstatus will continue to mean something (if not much) if you repeatedly fire upon illegal ship targets in low sec without doing good deeds in between (ratting/tag turn in etc).
But thanks for complaining that you can't incorporate sentry guns into the force defending your standing gate camp from in system ambushers. Simply flying away and then back won't make them like habitual suspects. 
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Proddy Scun
Renfield Inc
0
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Posted - 2012.10.04 20:05:00 -
[2] - Quote
Although a threat to T1 cruisers and frigates of all type -- sentry guns alone are pretty meaningless for large ships and roam groups, especially T2-T3.
Personally I think to make things more exciting for experienced HABITUAL suspects (especially gate campers), CCP should add random but infrequent NPC Navy patrols of stations and gates. The objective would be to affect habitual suspects in a way very similar to how rats harass sustained mining especially in low sec. Not so frequently as to make gate camps uncommon but often enough to add NPC risk to gate camps and to prevent sustained embargoes within EMPIRE space.
Lots of low sec gate camps are semi-AFK auto-target affairs which last all weekend. Worse its more likely in the interests of experienced pilots to join gate camps than to oppose them. Gate camps tend to be ad hoc groups for farming kills of less experienced and solo players. Since lo sec is generally NOT organized into large alliances and corps, it can take a while before a large enough group of more experienced players comes by to dislodge gate camps from some ambush spots.
PVP should not become an AFK activity even where a large fleet is ambushing individuals. Gate camping by larger groups in lo sec should entail its own infrequent risk from the EMPIRE factions -- since within sustained universal trade embargo is against factional interests not just individual pilots and corps.
I suppose larger rat/NPC convoys transiting gates and visiting stations might provide similar breaks in a static situation...as well as a prize for rival groups to fight with/over.
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Proddy Scun
Renfield Inc
1
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Posted - 2012.10.04 20:30:00 -
[3] - Quote
Since CCP is taking away early surprise ejection as an option to reduce chances of being podded in PVP...
maybe they need to automated pod combat escape a little more.
While its nice to survey and BM wrecks from pod in NPC combat, in PVP combat I just want to get the hell away ASAP.
In PVP sometimes I find my pod appearance lagged behind attackers or the explosion makes the pod spinning and uncontrollable for a short but critical time.
How about having pod home on random celestial body or dock with random station in system? Or at least a random warp out of weapon range (350km+) within grid.
The within grid warp might be the best compromise for pod escape between PVP and NPC combat. Although it would be easy enough to make the auto-escape a player toggle button option as well. |

Proddy Scun
Renfield Inc
1
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Posted - 2012.10.05 06:23:00 -
[4] - Quote
Hmmm...my overall impression is that CrimeWatch 2 has very little to do with controlling crime --
and a WHOLE lot to do with FORCING PVP encounters to a decisive conclusion if I understand correctly.
#1 Once an aggressor shoots a target ship that target can no longer duck back into a station regardless of whether its a legal target or not. So you are also warp jammed -- you better have the superior combat ship.
Hmmm..can pirate T1 BCs tank station guns long enough to kill Mackinaws and Hulks once redocking is no longer an option for mining pilots?
Will CCP make station guns destructible again to encourage this sort of engagement? Didn't I see a blog where CCP said intensified PVP conflict was its main overall improvement goal for EVE as whole and hi sec in particular over the next year or so? Something about raising combat losses to where T2 ships would become far less common once more.
#2 Haulers can no longer escape ambushes by jumping gates. Mainly affects freighters and Orcas. Other haulers can simply warp away from GCC attackers which now have front-loaded warp disable. Although being unable to dock at stations will keep especially valuable cargoes vulnerable to additional attackers for 60 seconds.
NEGATIVE ASPECTS:
Mining players who do escape combat encounters are prohibited from switching ships and returning as part of intruder response group. This heavily favors the aggressor groups in sparsely populated null or wh space. However, this does logically follow a physics module which says weapons firing and impacts create dangerous high energy charges on the exterior of both involved ships.
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Proddy Scun
Renfield Inc
1
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Posted - 2012.10.05 07:07:00 -
[5] - Quote
Gizznitt Malikite wrote:Proddy Scun wrote:Hmmm...my overall impression is that CrimeWatch 2 has very little to do with controlling crime --
and a WHOLE lot to do with FORCING PVP encounters to a decisive conclusion if I understand correctly.
#1 Once an aggressor shoots a target ship that target can no longer duck back into a station regardless of whether its a legal target or not. So you are also warp jammed -- you better have the superior combat ship.
Hmmm..can pirate T1 BCs tank station guns long enough to kill Mackinaws and Hulks once redocking is no longer an option for mining pilots?
Will CCP make station guns destructible again to encourage this sort of engagement? Didn't I see a blog where CCP said intensified PVP conflict was its main overall improvement goal for EVE as whole and hi sec in particular over the next year or so? Something about raising combat losses to where T2 ships would become far less common once more.
#2 Haulers can no longer escape ambushes by jumping gates. Mainly affects freighters and Orcas. Other haulers can simply warp away from GCC attackers which now have front-loaded warp disable. Although being unable to dock at stations will keep especially valuable cargoes vulnerable to additional attackers for 60 seconds.
NEGATIVE ASPECTS:
Mining players who do escape combat encounters are prohibited from switching ships and returning as part of intruder response group. This heavily favors the aggressor groups in sparsely populated null or wh space. However, this does logically follow a physics module which says weapons firing and impacts create dangerous high energy charges on the exterior of both involved ships.
What are you talking about..... 1.) If you don't aggress someone, nor provide remote assistance to someone that's aggressing someone, you won't get a weapons flag, meaning you can dock, jump, warp (assuming your not scrammed), or whatever... So, those macks and hulks can redock just fine... unless they do something really stupid... 2.) See point 1.... and think about it... Go re-read the dev blog and get a clue....
Good point I was reading the stuff on the PVP flag line instead of weapons flag line in the chart. Thought I had read somewhere above that the weapons flag did that too.
Still it would an interesting way to push up the conflicts without distorting the behaviors rules...just make it a consequence of physics for both parties. |

Proddy Scun
Renfield Inc
1
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Posted - 2012.10.05 07:15:00 -
[6] - Quote
Lumifragger Ghentenaar wrote:Warde Guildencrantz wrote:CCP Masterplan wrote: This is not just oddly intentional, it is very intentional. If we didn't want to penalise T3 death, we simply wouldn't have the skillpoint-loss mechanic in the first place
I really don't get why losing an 800mil ship is not enough of a penalization. Also, what is the point of ejecting if you can't do it when there is an emergency. Isn't that what an "escape pod" is for? Perhaps you should just make T3s not have this penalty, their cost is already huge, losing them is already penalty enough when you pop. Don't fly what you can't afford. And sorry you can no longer only fly RMT faction tengus anymore
T3 are fairly expensive for new players who are not converting RL cash to ISK by selling PLEX.
But they really aren't that expensive for serious players who either been around or who are willing to drop a little RL cash to boost things along.
I'd bet most players who have played regularly for 2-3 years and belong to a decent corp or alliance have an income of at least 1-2B ISK per month. If they don't PLEX an extra account or two then they can spend it on T3. If you lose 10-12 Tengu per year...you are probably doing something wrong or your corp/alliance should be gaining enough territory and loot to reimburse you for being a key hard core player.
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Proddy Scun
Renfield Inc
1
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Posted - 2012.10.05 07:31:00 -
[7] - Quote
Cerulean Ice wrote:CCP Masterplan wrote:Logistics on killmails will not be happening in this release, sorry. Logi don't need to be on killmails. We're better than that. CCP Masterplan wrote:Gate guns will always be on the side of the innocent party. If a pair of -10s or suspects start fighting on a gate, the guns will happily ignore them, since neither is innocent. But there are no innocents in EVE... CCP Masterplan wrote:Jeas Imerius wrote:I like how this sounds so far! I have an idea of how the new 1v1 system could work though.. Call it Dueling: Right click players portrait or ship and click 'Challenge player to Duel' (must be in a ship and in space).
A window pops up were both parties either accept or decline. 'Insert Name has challenged you to a Duel, do you wish to defend your honor?'
If both accept, a 10 second timer begins during which time both players assume their positions (take 10 paces).
After the countdown they are free to fire on each other without incurring any flags.
Once a ship is destroyed the duel is over.
 Stop reading my email! Will players in the same corporation still be able to shoot each other? Back in my uni days, we shot each other for practice :3
Did not read anything about changing corp ships to illegal targets. I think illegal targets remain the same unless they gain a flag that makes them legal. However CrimeWatch flags are not the only way to become legal target -- WarDec system and corp membership are there too. |

Proddy Scun
Renfield Inc
1
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Posted - 2012.10.05 07:45:00 -
[8] - Quote
ArmyOfMe wrote:CCP Masterplan wrote: When you've ejected from your expensive gatecamp ship, what's to stop a conveniently-placed alt-orca scooping it and insta-jumping to highsec, where it will be untouchable?
make it so that targeted ships cant be scooped? Would fix the problem as sentrys target everything with a gcc
Hee hee I have seen a lot of low sec gate camps where they used masses of cheaper ships over "expensive, quality" ships.
However, why not tag ship as well as pilot with GCC and treat scooping as any other assistance? ....make GCC flagging of ship permanent and save overhead of timers on GCC ships. Pilot pods aren't attacked anyway so its really GCC on ships that counts for destruction. Any property used during GCC is lost would be very similar to public laws in real world.
So now that alt-flown Orca has the GCC too. And it cannot jump gate. Or if system lags in preventing that Orca from jumping gate - the Orca just jumped from frying pan (sentry guns alone) to fire (sentry guns of other side plus CONCORD etc)
LOL - that way you can remove restriction on switching ships. Every ship you board as GCC pilot is another ship tagged with GCC. Could be humorous too. |

Proddy Scun
Renfield Inc
1
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Posted - 2012.10.05 08:08:00 -
[9] - Quote
Vladimir Norkoff wrote:Iam Widdershins wrote:Just have a hauler right there in fleet or whatever to whoosh the goods away as soon as they appear if you really want them. Meh. A single hauler load is hardly worth stealing. You want an entire can-full to flip, which is multiple hauler loads. You want to have taken enough of their time, that they and their entire corp will come gunning for you. You can easily steal a hauler load of ore with this new system if that is all you are after. Just cruise around cloaked, bookmark cans, swap to a hauler, warp to can, loot and warp off. But that's not the point. Miners won't care. A hauler load is just a few minutes of mining time lost. That's not worth risking their ship over. But if you take a half-hour, or an hour, of their work. Then they get pissed. And that's when they get their combat ships. And that IS the point. This new system (if the Suspect flag is retro-active) eliminates that. Can/wreck flipping just becomes an "Open PvP Flag - On" button, with no real meaning or context. You can only take what you can fit into your cargo, and that really ain't much in the overall scheme of things. Nobody is going to care. And in the end it will reduce another form of player interaction (albeit rather violent interaction). And that is not a good thing. Things that promote conflict on the other hand are good. Conflict is what drives this game.
Hmmm...jetcan 27500m3 Rigged Iteron V 38000+ m3
I can steal a whole jetcan if nobody is guarding it.
LOL - I have had entire cans flipped and stolen them back from under the nose of the can flipper (risky if one of you gets timing wrong).
If you just want to cost them time...I think you can still flip their jetcan and then shoot it destroying the load. Or is it only your own wrecks? Been so long since I intentionally destroyed my own loot cans. But I can remember seeing people do that in mission sites and complexes to keep ninjas from getting loot years ago. |

Proddy Scun
Renfield Inc
1
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Posted - 2012.10.05 08:42:00 -
[10] - Quote
Tusko Hopkins wrote:A quick question: lets say I take my Tornado and gank a hauler in high-sec. Several flags fly off and I end up getting C-flagged and CONCORD comes in to screw me up. Unlike earlier I cannot warp off and get killed at a distant location either. Sooner or later CONCORD comes out vicorious and I end up in a pod.
Do I understand the rules correctly that the flags I received are passed on my pod? With a C flag on my pod, will I be a sitting duck for 15 minutes, unable to warp or jump the gate being a legal target to anyone? Does this mean a 99.9% probabilitity to get podded upon a highsec gank as well? Or I don't need to worry about the C flag anyways because CONCORD is going to get me?
really I saw no change for after your ship is destroyed by CONCORD. As any ganker knows only gank wearing a JC with implants you don't mind losing too badly.
As now while in pod you are not legal target for anyone and are not restricted from docking or any other activity pods can do.
As now being in pod will not lose the flags. They are there in case should you board another ship. Under current system, you can already dock in pod and leave station in new ship with timer still going and get blown up immediately by station guns.
Now it is true that a pod is much easier to kill than ship. So yes some unscrupulous players might take advantage -- similar to your taking advantage of essential unarmed miner. I hope you don't have a bounty or didn't **** off that miner with combat ship in system off too bad.
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Proddy Scun
Renfield Inc
1
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Posted - 2012.10.05 09:20:00 -
[11] - Quote
Mizhir wrote:Dierdra Vaal wrote:Do I understand it correctly that if two players are in a Limited Engagement, and a third player reps one of the two, the third player becomes attackable by everyone and not just the people in the LE? Thats how I understand it. But one of the two players will be attackable by everyone aswell since he was already flagged for something in the first place. The LE just allows him to defend himself without committing more crimes.
Suspect flag for assistance to good guy is foul idea.
Why not just copy the flags from the ship assisted?
Copying the LE flag from the "good guy" citizen attacker would then allow the criminal to attack the assister as a legal target.
Assisting the "bad guy" would copy criminal or suspect flags.
Or do LE flags also keep any additional ships from attacking the "bad guy" directly with weapons? Forcing good guys to line up for 1v1 combat queue with bad guy would just seem bizarrely like fairy tale knight's trial by combat. Especially since I bet CONCORD doesn't comply. |

Proddy Scun
Renfield Inc
1
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Posted - 2012.10.05 09:36:00 -
[12] - Quote
CCP Masterplan wrote:Mizhir wrote:Dierdra Vaal wrote:Do I understand it correctly that if two players are in a Limited Engagement, and a third player reps one of the two, the third player becomes attackable by everyone and not just the people in the LE? Thats how I understand it. But one of the two players will be attackable by everyone aswell since he was already flagged for something in the first place. The LE just allows him to defend himself without committing more crimes. Exactly this. Interfering in an LE will get you a suspect flag
Is LE intended to limit combat with Suspect and Criminals to 1v1 encounters?
That is can I shoot flagged ship if someone is already shooting it? or do I have to wait my turn?
Or does Suspect flag for LE interference only apply to indirect assistance?
It seems like copying LE flag from assisted ship to indirect assister would solve things without excluding assist ship from battle or risk of being shot.
Or does this solution stem from issues with later flag propagation if assisted good guy ship later performs criminal act while assistance continues? I thought CCP solved that by having new flags also cause assistance interruption. Guess you can't just break lock of all former friendlies once player-player flagging is gone. But a quick flag check by assisting ships before each module cycle should reveal changes with fairly low overhead. |

Proddy Scun
Renfield Inc
1
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Posted - 2012.10.05 10:36:00 -
[13] - Quote
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:Tippia wrote:Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:This 15 minute NPC timer means death for any ratter who has an internet outage. You can't balance a game around the assumption that people have awful ISPs because that only ever opens the door for new and fun exploits. If you have an outage, do what you would normally do: get back online ASAP. "Play from the USA, UK or Germany or GTFO". Sounds great, expecially for the majority of the worldwide population stuck with monopolist / bad technology nations.
(1) Yeah reverse that statement. You can't balance game based on everyone having perfect connections either.
(2) 15 minutes is probably too long a NPC timer especially if you are not warp disabled.
If you are NOT being attacked or targeted for 30 seconds then your ship beat the original NPC attack and could warp out if you were still connected. Its not a case of escape by plugging the plug unless its an environmental no warp zone (special site)
So how about 30 seconds NPC timer that doesn't count down as long as you are being shot? That and a limited self-defense AI (reload & shoot back at anything that shoots your ship first) when disconnected or logged off?
(3) Yes that leaves a exploit situation where plug pulling is actually done to avoiding PVP when someone enters low sec, null or wh space and no safe haven (POS/station/etc) exists in system. But why key no escape timer to NPC fighting alone? Why not mining flag? Or sitting anywhere unsafe?
The issue in this case is not your ship remaining in system - but your ship sitting still at a vulnerable spot.
Add automatic docking (user station/POS choice) or auto-pilot patrol a limited list of system safe points as default action on disconnect/logoff. No advantage will be gained over staying logged on but true disconnects or RL need to log off NOW will not result in a total give'me.
Obviously 30 second no NPC combat timer has to reached before auto-evade clicks on. Or at least the ability to warp away. |

Proddy Scun
Renfield Inc
1
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Posted - 2012.10.05 11:17:00 -
[14] - Quote
Katarina Reid wrote:When you log with aggression u do warp but you just dont disappear for the aggression timer. So you will still warp out of the mission you just wont disappear from space.
oh so you read it as no change.
I took it as remains in current space location due the comments about ship destruction under NPC flags. But I can see now that might mean probing and destruction by PVP.
Still pretty annoying flags given the NPC/PVP flags stay with you for 15 minutes -- even if you won (finished) or escaped prior combat.
Now its 15 minutes of enforced idleness to be safe from probes...even if severe storms or its now time to go to work. Can't really mine because rats might attack even in hi sec.
15 minute PVP flag alone wouldn't be quite so burdensome in most system. although if you can evade for 6-10 minutes you can probably evade indefinitely...unless that 15 minutes is for really slow combat probe operator or badly organized fleet slowly flooding system. |

Proddy Scun
Renfield Inc
1
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Posted - 2012.10.05 11:27:00 -
[15] - Quote
Adhar Khorin wrote:Ok, my initial review - cross posted from my blog. Overall very very cool.
- It's not all that easy to pick up a suspect flag without n++alson++ incurring a security status hit. Stealing from a container/wreck will do it, and assisting another player in a Limited Engagement. CCP might consider adding ninja-salvaging added to this list, because those wrecks are yellow until they're abandoned.
- Assisting an Outlaw in low-sec doesn't incur any penalty. In looking at the legality progression, it seems it might incur a suspect flag - that would provide a boost to the vigilante gang's legal target sphere. Aiding and abetting, and all that.
- The ship/capsule difference is the difference between property crime and personal crime (civil/criminal) - I'm sure the law enforcement types out there can steer me straight on this one, but it does explain the difference in legality status (suspect vs. criminal) and the magnitude of the sec status hit. I'm not sure what that says about CONCORD's regard for the hapless crew on all of those whacked ships, though.
Thanks for the good work CCP!
Not sure on the rationale for no penalty for assisting outlaws in low sec...but I am betting CCP is basing it on the Bart Simpson principle "In low sec there are no CONCORD sensors to see you doing it. Only black boxes to squeal out ship/pod death data." |

Proddy Scun
Renfield Inc
1
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Posted - 2012.10.05 11:51:00 -
[16] - Quote
Dierdra Vaal wrote:Question:
At fanfest you guys said that ship killing (but not pod killing) in low sec would only drop your sec status to -5, not -10, and that you'd change high sec so that you can still go anywhere at -5, unlike the gradual system of exclusion that currently exists. Essentially, this would allow people to be low sec pirates without locking themselves out of high sec, provided they don't podkill.
Is this still happening? (please say yes!)
Wow! Did that mean a -5 cap on how far sec status could drop no matter how many ships you killed? That would be huge change. For some reason I was thinking ships kills dropped you a fixed amount (-3?) but were cumulative and that was to remain true.
Although why protect pods specially? Ships tend to cost more than Implants and clone unless toon is an alt of rich toon. In which case implant loss is an equalizer with other new toons and a well understood risk.
I did see mention of -5 in high sec...but I thought that blog was rounding or dropping fractions on secstatus to allow more players to stay just on border line for travel in some hi sec systems. Whereas at -5 you are outlaw everywhere now.
Frankly if the change is that big - its probably time to go whole hog and totally remove sec status and CONCORD. Force players to join up with decent sized corps and alliances from day 1. Null sec everywhere! |

Proddy Scun
Renfield Inc
1
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Posted - 2012.10.05 12:16:00 -
[17] - Quote
Naibasak wrote:Will this mean no way of getting 1v1 frigate fights outside stations in highsec while waiting for trade orders to go through unless youGÇÖre in the same corp?
If so, that's kinda dull.
Naw that is one of the points they said that they are working on at end of blog - and its nickname is already Dueling system. Apparently they are thinking of LE flags mutually set by players through chat option. -- like trade option.
LE flags apparently just mark you as legal target for specific pilot and carry no penalties themselves.
I think it should work as long well as long as they copy LE flags to any neutral assistance ships. Neutral repper becomes legal target for whatever ships have LE flags on the ship its tries to assist. ( I am thinking LE flag includes identity of ships that can legally attack the target ship - no supsect or criminal flags as long as target has LE flag matching attacker - copy to indirect assisting ships).
But maybe they will do it different. |

Proddy Scun
Renfield Inc
1
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Posted - 2012.10.05 12:26:00 -
[18] - Quote
Rek Seven wrote:CCP Masterplan wrote: This is not just oddly intentional, it is very intentional. If we didn't want to penalise T3 death, we simply wouldn't have the skillpoint-loss mechanic in the first place
I have no issue with loosing skill point but i do not like the idea of not being able to eject to save your pod no matter what ship you are in. With T3's why not make it to where if you eject from a T3 and that T3 gets destroyed while the pilot has a pvp flag, that pilot automatically loses skill points? The are many engagements in eve where one player will almost certainly lose their ship and their pod if they don't perform specific actions... For example, a hauler may get tackled by a combat ship and the only option he has available is to attempt to ecm jam the aggressor, and if that doesn't work, eject to save their pod. With your proposed change, that hauler would be an fool to attempt to escape using ecm as he will gain a weapons flag and be unable to eject for 60 seconds. You have just reduced that pilots options to - sit there and take it or lose everything. How is that an improvement?
It expedites the outcome of combat with obvious outcomes - eject early and don't spoil a perfect ambush by petty revenge using drones to kill their drones or tackler. |

Proddy Scun
Renfield Inc
1
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Posted - 2012.10.05 12:40:00 -
[19] - Quote
Dierdra Vaal wrote:Proddy Scun wrote:Dierdra Vaal wrote:Question:
At fanfest you guys said that ship killing (but not pod killing) in low sec would only drop your sec status to -5, not -10, and that you'd change high sec so that you can still go anywhere at -5, unlike the gradual system of exclusion that currently exists. Essentially, this would allow people to be low sec pirates without locking themselves out of high sec, provided they don't podkill.
Is this still happening? (please say yes!) Wow! Did that mean a -5 cap on how far sec status could drop no matter how many ships you killed? That would be huge change. For some reason I was thinking ships kills dropped you a fixed amount (-3?) but were cumulative and that was to remain true. This was my understanding. But I'd like to hear from CCP if they're still planning this. Keep in mind that ship killing in high sec would still drop you below -5.
Heh! that would make all their work on the wardec system fairly useless anywhere but hi sec. Not sure I see much use for hi sec only wardec system as that probably means only baby corps in general. mature corps would prefer lo sec for semi-surprise attacks. But I guess getting everyone to move PVP to lo sec is the CCP objective. |

Proddy Scun
Renfield Inc
1
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Posted - 2012.10.05 12:45:00 -
[20] - Quote
crazy idea - if you are throwing suspect flags on any one assisting LE combatants...how about warping anyone bumping ships with PVP flags to random point in system off grid? Bumpers provide lots of assistance in ganking large ships at zero risk. Too much accidental bumping at stations and busy gates to put suspect or criminal flags on. But safety system emergency warp would limit bumper fleet action. |
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